The Full-Time Creator Podcast

Ep. 13 – How course creators can “build in public” to grow an audience & create courses people ACTUALLY want, with Kevon Cheung

In this episode, Zach talks to Kevon Cheung from Build in Public Mastery.

Kevon helps creators build online communities & products their communities actually want.

He’s the author of the book “Find Joy in Chaos” , been a guest contributor in Mailchimp’s courier magazine, has a total of 5,000 students, and has gone from 0-20k Twitter followers since 2020.

Kevon also runs buildinpublicsprint.com, which is a 30-day sprint to help you document ideas & post 1 story every day.

In today’s episode, Kevon talks about why creators think building in public is hard when it’s actually really achievable. He also shares the first 3 steps to getting started.

Plus, you’ll learn how to build in public even if you don’t like using social media.

Get Kevon’s Build in Public Bootcamp!

Follow Kevon:

AI-Generated Summary:

  • 0:00 – 2:00 — Zach introduces the podcast and guest Kevan Chong, who specializes in helping creators build online communities and products. Kevan’s book, “Find Joy in Chaos,” is discussed for its relevance in social media community building.
  • 2:00 – 4:00 — Zach highlights Kevan’s contributions to MailChimp Courier magazine and his success in aiding over 5000 students in building public. Kevan’s transition to building in public in 2020 and his significant growth on social media and email lists are mentioned.
  • 4:00 – 6:00 — Kevan defines “building in public” as an approach that involves creating products with direct community feedback, emphasizing interaction with fans rather than just posting updates.
  • 6:00 – 8:00 — Discussion on the varying platforms for building in public, including the benefits of social media for exposure versus more private settings like email lists for deeper, more personal feedback.
  • 8:00 – 10:00 — Kevan talks about the primary benefits of building in public, such as community trust and marketing advantages, and the importance of accountability and gaining confidence through community feedback.
  • 10:00 – 12:00 — Kevon discusses the motivational aspect of building with people’s expectations in mind. Zach shares his experience in supporting students in his community, finding motivation in their needs.
  • 12:00 – 14:00 — Zach expresses his challenges with social media and building in public, noting his preference for live video coaching. Kevon responds by redefining social media as a customizable communication platform.
  • 14:00 – 16:00 — Kevon advises on using social media effectively by choosing the right people to follow and engage with. He also discusses scheduling posts and managing interactions to balance personal life and online presence.
  • 16:00 – 18:00 — Zach inquires about strategies for building an audience from scratch on social media. Kevon emphasizes the importance of making friends and engaging with peers and potential customers.
  • 18:00 – 20:00 — Kevon explains the relationship between community and customers in social media, highlighting the role of community in reaching potential customers. Zach seeks clarification on the initial steps to build a community on social media.
  • 20:00 – 22:00 — Kevon reflects on identifying his passion for entrepreneurship through blog posts, leading him to target bootstrap founders as his audience.
  • 22:00 – 24:00 — Kevon shares his backstory of pivoting a software company during COVID, realizing the importance of focusing on a specific customer persona.
  • 24:00 – 26:00 — Zach and Kevon discuss the challenges of rapidly pivoting in a startup and the importance of targeting a specific audience.
  • 26:00 – 28:00 — Kevon emphasizes the need to commit to one target group for long-term success and avoid constantly switching target audiences.
  • 28:00 – 30:00 — Kevon advises starting by being helpful in a chosen community and shares his experience of building relationships through forums like Indie Hackers. Zach inquires about finding opportunities to help on Twitter.
  • 30:00 – 32:00 — Kevon advises finding the right people on social media who are open and honest, suggesting following smaller accounts for more meaningful interactions.
  • 32:00 – 34:00 — Zach explores how to expand his social network by engaging with Kevon’s followers. Kevon recommends focusing on interactions with smaller accounts rather than larger ones.
  • 34:00 – 36:00 — Kevon critiques Zach’s use of Twitter as too one-directional and emphasizes the importance of creating conversations on social media.
  • 36:00 – 38:00 — Kevon outlines his formula for a balanced social media presence, including building public posts, expertise sharing, supporting others, and showing personality.
  • 38:00 – 40:00 — Kevon explains how to spark conversations on Twitter by asking questions about upcoming decisions or struggles, using personal examples. Zach reflects on the value of indirect self-promotion through helpful community interaction.
  • 40:00 – 42:00 — Kevon emphasizes starting with making friends on social media to lower pressure and gradually build the right audience.
  • 42:00 – 44:00 — Kevon advises following interests to find one’s niche, citing his own journey and gradual knowledge development in his area of interest.
  • 44:00 – 46:00 — Kevon shares an analogy about becoming a chess MVP at a new school, relating it to not declaring oneself as an expert immediately but letting it emerge naturally.
  • 46:00 – 48:00 — Zach seeks advice on KPIs for following people on Twitter. Kevon advises starting with smaller, similar-sized accounts and gradually networking with larger ones as one grows.
  • 48:00 – 50:00 — Kevon outlines steps for creating new relationships on social media, emphasizing gradual, meaningful interactions over rushing connections.
  • 50:00 – 52:00 — Kevon recommends documentation as the most important habit for social media, suggesting to write down thoughts and feelings to create content.
  • 52:00 – 54:00 — Kevon advises on showcasing the podcast’s behind-the-scenes process and suggests setting a 30-day theme to make it interesting.
  • 54:00 – 56:00 — Kevon emphasizes using personal voice and aligning it with one business or interest for a clear personal brand image.
  • 56:00 – 58:00 — Kevon suggests starting with action-oriented products like challenges or workshops before creating courses, to get feedback and understand audience needs.
  • 58:00 – 1:00:00 — Kevon shares his journey of evolving his products from challenges to knowledge-based courses, advising against starting with free offers to attract serious participants.
  • 1:00:00 – 1:02:00 — Kevon discusses the idea of being braver, reflecting on the creator economy’s U.S. centrism and contemplating moving to the U.S. for better opportunities.
  • 1:02:00 – 1:05:30 — Zach explores different learning preferences for engaging with Kevon’s content, highlighting options like video courses, reading, or action-oriented approaches.

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